Monks

Monks

Connors 14 Jun 2014 12:24

As Shane has asked, I thought I would start one for these guys too.

Building a monk? Well, I can think of two strains here. I am thinking we have a Psionic/Ki guy and one that has Divine-empowered abilities. (The 4E Advanced Player's Guide had a divine monk).

For the first, I do have a TT underway in the 'To Do' section and it will be easy to move to the 'Done' section with a few tweeks.

For the second - see the Paladin Thread for thoughts.

Other than that, if building an unarmed fighter you simply take access to the Martial Artist FS TT and then combine with one of the above for the 'supernatural' parts. Obviously other TTs already in existence would also help, like Mental Toughness and Toughness.

Is that enough? (I was going to ask whether there needs to be a Monk TT, but I guess I have outlined 2 already ;)).

Does this sound okay?

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: Monks

Vamprey 14 Jun 2014 13:35

Yea I saw the Monk in to do, though I opted to go with a Psionic Spellcaster (so 10PP's for 3 powers) to get the same effects. Though I wanted to modify some of the spells so that they only affect the caster (e.g. Armour but can only use it on self as they concentrate and make themselves harder to damage) which I am thinking might reduce teh cost of the spell in terms of PP's.

Again as with my comment under Paladin it would be easy enough to build a small power/spell list that would suit this and would mimic the powers that a monk used to get under DnD various editions, rather than creating a specific TT.

I actually think that this in some ways would almost work better than a TT due to the nature of those roles, especially when combined with the TT's that you currently have of course. And again these could be modified by the player so that it reflected the school of martial arts (monk), which god (paladin) or terrain (ranger) that the player wanted.

I hope this makes some sense.

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Chaotic Good: Governments should be afraid of their people.

Re: Monks

Connors 15 Jun 2014 04:27

Again, I am not in favour of developing 'spell lists' for partial casters. I have that covered with 'Divine Empowered' (which I don't expect all monks to take).

I will have to look at the Monk TT that I have already put together before I make sweeping changes here. I know Deadlands already has done a lot of powers for mystical monks so I would be inclined to use that rather than another spellcaster using PPs.

But, if you want to build another full spellcaster go ahead. I am not in favour of reducing PPs for spells like Armor at all. Being able to use it on yourself is just a fair restriction that comes from relying upon chi. There are a lot of restrictions to be placed on spells to individualise them, but I don't want you to drop PPs to boost your own armor. That is too powerful.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: Monks 'Powers'

Connors 15 Jun 2014 04:37

Wow. Deadlands actually does something like super powers (see Chi MAstery). Each spell/power selected is its own Skill/Specialty.

So you select 1 Spell/Power with the Edge; you get 20 PPs that can only be used on that power, but each Spell is its own skill. (In our case Specialty). This doesn't work as well with our system, b/c you don't have to build that skill up from 0. You would auto start with a decent 'casting die'. But I do like it better than the Adept from Fantasy Companion.

But you might want to try this. Myself, as stated have an idea in mind so any character can infuse their powers with a bit of the divine.

But this might make a better chi-based PC, rather than looking the same as a full spellcaster. Might be worth a try actually. And yeah, I would restrict all Spells (at least early on) to targeting yourself for monks.

In fact, this might make for a cool way to do psionics full stop. Powers from within type stuff?

I recommend you go this route Shane and align each actual Power with the most relevant Ability.

Eg: Tough Skin (Armor Power), would be Vigor and you have an Armor Power Specialty.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Last edited on 15 Jun 2014 05:11 by Connors Show more

Re: Monks 'Powers'

Vamprey 15 Jun 2014 07:07

ok I can see what you're getting at but I think this is making their powers very costly, especially if there is still the "failure" rate attached, as you not only have to buy the power, but then spend points in the specialty slot to improve you chances of using each seperate power when a normal caster only has to increase one specialty to increase the chance of casting all their spells (e.g. Faith), unless the power/spell is attached to an already existing specialty

e.g. Tough Skin (Armour Power) attached to Vigor (Durability)

If this were the case then it would be easy enough to keep the failure

e.g. A normal divine caster gets 8 novice, 4 seasoned & 2 veteran spells (14 spells) to start and can increase all the chances of these from d4 to d8 by increasing Will to d8 (1 advance) and faith to d8 (1.5 advance) = 2.5 advances.

for the above to get the same would cost 14 advances just to get the same number of powers, even with the 20PP's for each this seems over excessive. At least if the power was attached to an already existing specialty (given that it is a self generated power) this would reduce the massive cost. Hope what I am saying here makes sense.

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Chaotic Good: Governments should be afraid of their people.

Last edited on 15 Jun 2014 07:11 by Vamprey Show more

Re: Monks 'Powers'

Connors 15 Jun 2014 09:15

It is VERY hard to compare to the cleric. The idea behind the clerics is the large variety of powers, remembering that they have penalties for higher level ones and severe failure penalties.

Using this system, there would be NO failure penalties (other than spending PPs). Power works or it doesn't and you can try again next turn.

Also remember Powers might be attached to Abilities you are already good with. The opposite applies too I guess.

Perhaps we could have a proviso that the Specialty could rise higher than the ability too, as these are more 'natural powers? OR Another option would be to simply treat them like Expertise where you just buy Specialties (and treat like an ability) and roll the Specialty die twice? Would that be too far the other way?

I actually see this as a cool system. hard to compare a very focused caster to a variety one like cleric. Check out Arcane BG (Super Powers) in the SW Deluxe book.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: Monks 'Powers'

Connors 16 Jun 2014 06:25

Any others wish to weigh in on this?

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: Monks 'Powers'

Connors 18 Jun 2014 04:36

Okay - (reports done and in my inspiration mode). I am writing this up right now, so, given I have heard from no-one, I am going with the 2nd option. (Monk powers work as Abilities but are purchased as Specialties, just like Expertise and Languages). We will see how that goes.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: Monks 'Powers'

Vamprey 18 Jun 2014 05:47

Ok, I'll build one when I get a chance and see how it goes once it's written up.

I think it would also work as per the paladin way you described (i.e. use it until it fails that day) if you were using a Chi Mastery Specialty (or is that what you meant, Im all confused with this now so am not going to comment again until I see what you write up.

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Chaotic Good: Governments should be afraid of their people.

Last edited on 18 Jun 2014 05:51 by Vamprey Show more

Re: Monks 'Powers'

Connors 18 Jun 2014 06:54

Not like Faboured Soul, BUT a divine-type monk could ALSO choose that.

No for Chi stuff I am going with Power Points b/c it is like Psionics (and was the same thing in 4E) and Psionics has long been associated with PPs.

So, it is basically as the Super Powers in the SW Deluxe for 'out there' supernatural monk abilities. if you want mundane, just stick to Martial Arts FS TT.

BTW: I have changed the Entry Edge name to just Unarmed Fighter, rather than have two different named ones (and one of those had 3 names) to get into different Unarmed Styles. No there is ONE.

It was also confusing having Monk/Martial Arts Fighting Group, a Martial Artist TT AND an Entry Edge called Martial Arts. So I renamed the Entry Edge. (just a heads up for when you go looking).

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Monk Builds

Connors 16 Jun 2014 06:21

Okay, so here is a discussion for those interested in creating monks. Whilst I like classes, I read the Pathfinder Monk last night and felt a little underwhelmed by some of the class abilities there. Especially given there was no choice. That is the adv of our system - you can still 'build' the class, but in so many different ways.

Here are some ways for eg to do a monk-style PC (but note that I haven't actually fleshed some of this out on the TTs yet):
1. A simple martial artist: look to the Martial Arts Fighting Style TT. This TT represents non-supernatural fighting (well, will when I finish modifying).
2. Monk TT: This will include some of the more supernatural abilities typical of monk classes in D&D.
3. Use the Chi Mastery Edge to gain individual Powers as Specialties. This is for way out there Wuxia-style stuff.
4. (My least favoured). You could build them as a full caster with PPs and describe Powers as exploits. (I prefer the above option for this to distinguish b/w caster types.
5. A divine inspired monk will soon be possible with my Favoured Soul idea and access to the Divine TT. Of course this will need Edges/Talents from the above suggestions that can be infused with some of the divine.

Obviously any monk will mix some of the Edges/TTs, but it depends upon how supernatural you want to go. (Hence keeping the TTs separate).

Also other TTs like Mental Toughness, Toughness or even Skirmisher would also influence choices. Nothing stopping them from selecting certain Talents from other Fighting Style trees either.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: Monk Builds

Nicko73 17 Jun 2014 00:20

if i were to do a monk i would opt for option 1, 2 or option 3, don't like the idea of a divine type monk or spell casting type.
i would either picture a bruce lee type that is a good fighter but no supernatural abilities, or a psionicst/fighter type monk that incorporates psionics into giving him/her "supernatural" abilities (psionics may not exist in the B & B system but i think you understand where i am coming from).
in saying that monks have never really appealed to me but understand that other may choose this class so it is worth developing.

Re: Monk Builds

Connors 18 Jun 2014 02:18

Wow, I replied to you yesterday Nicko, but lost the post. Thanks for thoughts.

I am mostly with you, but I actually love the idea of a divine monk - but Sohei from Oriental Adventures has always been one of my fav classes.

My options weren't listed as a 'which way should we go'; they are the actual different ways you CAN build a 'monk/martial artist' with our system (or will be when I am done).

So rather than having ONE way, all with the same powers, we have a lot of ways to build these guys. I just thought I would create a post for people embarking on such a PC to help them. :)

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Re: Monk Builds

Connors 19 Jun 2014 00:05

So the TTs are done.

Direct monk-like options

Here is how a monk would look from standard fighter-type to Wuxia fly around, magical master.
1. Martial Artist TT
2. Monk TT
3. Chi Mastery Edge several times.

Obviously you can mix these up too for a 'little' supernatural.

Finally, any D&D-style monk would need to look at other TTs too.

Other Fighting Style TTS

1. Skirmisher esp for fast mvt and mobile monks
2. Unfettered for agile, one on one type fighting.

But there can be awesome adaptations of other FS TTs too, depending upon the martial arts 'style' you had in mind. For eg Reach if you incorporate spears into your style (like several Asian traditions); Brawling for close styles; Crushing & Cleaving for very hard styles; Slayer if the sect was created to combat a certain group; Two-Weapon has obvious advantages, esp as monk weapon (inc unarmed) are light; Weapon Master for styles that focus on a specific weapon, or againfor unarmed attacks; even Sniper for ninja-styled monks.

'Essential' Concept TTs

1. Mental Toughness: Almost essential for the stereotypical monk.
2. Toughness: Another important one, esp given the lack of armor. Several talents in here were actually inspired by the Monk and Oathsworn classes.

Other Concept TTs to consider

Again, these choices depend on your concept. More the cultural origins of your sect than fighting style.
1. Academic/Sage: for the learned sects that hide away and study. (Pretty common really for European monks and maybe all you need ;)).
2. Awareness: Obviously this is trope appropriate, but the TT doesn't have a lot of real monk-like 'monkey-sense' talents yet, so just dice in Perception would cover this.
3. Fortune: One to consider if you like quotes about destiny, etc.

I hope that helps for people building a Monk/Martial-Artist/Sohei/Chinese wuxia warrior/Ninja etc.

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“It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” – Harry S. Truman

Last edited on 21 Jul 2014 05:07 by Connors Show more